It was not easy to meet Joško Gravner, so the appointment was arranged almost three weeks in advance. I had an idea for interview for a long time, and Marino Markežić Kabola finally encouraged me to make it happen. He spoke of Gravner with great respect and recalled how Joško encouraged him to start producing wines in amphorae. Joško met us at the Polje vineyard. There I also remembered how Dimitri Brečević had told me that Gravner's vineyards represent the pinnacle of what every great winemaker strives for. The first steps among the vines confirm why. Nothing is left to chance here: according to Gravner, great wine can be created exclusively in the vineyard.
There is no life without water
Gravner grows the vines in the traditional alberello cultivation form, with extremely low yields, and cultivates all vineyards according to the principles of biodynamic agriculture. He also pays great attention to biodiversity. He plants different types of trees, including ginkgo, and makes ponds in which frogs, insects, water lilies and other different species live. Today he has five ponds, and he took the idea from his friend Gianfranco Soldera, whose philosophy is best described by the sentence that there is no life without water. Later, in his Jeep, we visited Dedno, Hum and Runk, three vineyards on hilly positions on both sides of the Slovenian-Italian border. Dedno, located on extremely steep terrain, made the greatest impression on me.
Since I am afraid of heights, the drive along the narrow and extremely steep roads was extremely exciting, but Gravner only smiled and warned that there was no need to worry because he drives along that road almost every day and knows it down to the smallest detail. There is an old story connected to this vineyard that he still holds in high regard today. After a major storm destroyed almost half of the vineyard, the woman from whom he bought the land contacted him and offered to refund him his money because the enormous damage he had suffered. Gravner says that this act of humanity left a deep impression on him and still often mentions it today as an example of honesty that is rarely encountered.
Five o'clock is time for vinejard
During my tour of the vineyard, I couldn’t help but notice how much work goes into biodynamic farming on about twenty hectares of vineyards. Gravner gets up at four every morning and is already among the vines by five. He works there until lunch, after which he returns to the vineyard and stays until the evening. This rhythm prompted me to ask him if he has time for hobbies and interests outside the vineyard? Since the World Cup was underway, the conversation turned to sports, and despite all the enormous work around the vineyard, his daily rhythm has hardly changed.
When asked which sport he likes the most, he answers without thinking that it is basketball. He enthusiastically talks about legends such as Toni Kukoč, Dino Radja, Mirza Delibašić and other greats from the former Yugoslavia. He also recalls an anecdote from his youth when he escaped from the vineyard during the grape harvest to watch a basketball team match. I was young, he added with a smile, recounting the event. Although basketball is his favorite sport, he occasionally follows football, although with somewhat less interest.
The Anarchist Who Ran Away from Politics
When asked whether he would support the Slovenian or Italian national team, he answers that he would still choose Italy. However, he especially emphasizes his respect for the then Slovenian coach Matjaž Kek, who is now the coach of Rijeka again. He says that he is a great fan of macerated wines and believes that he contributed a lot to the development of Slovenian football. Otherwise, when asked about his national identity, he answers simply: I am a citizen of the world whose native language is Slovenian.
Joško is also known as a great gourmet. In Croatia, he particularly highlights the Johnson restaurant in Mošćenička Draga, while he fondly recalls the legendary Kukuriku in Kastav. In Slovenia, he highly values the MAK restaurant and the work of Ana Roš. Janez Bratovž from Ljubljana's JB he explains as an institution and avant-garde of Slovenian gastronomy. He points out that Janez spoke about fine dining at a time when this concept was not yet so present in restaurants. After sports and restaurants, the conversation inevitably turned to politics. He says he is an anarchist. He left politics behind him a long time ago. Last time he voted was 30 years ago and his chois was Bettina Craxi. After great disappointment, he decided not to vote again.
Gianfranco Soldera is a role model
When asked which winemakers he most admires, he answers by naming some of the world's greatest names. In Italy, he particularly highlights Gianfranco Soldera. He considers him a role model and absolute number one because of his charisma, philosophy of life, wine and character. In Friuli, he favours Dario Prinčič, Damijan Podveršič and Edi Kante, for whom he says is one of the most talented winemakers in the region. He reveals that they had not been on good terms for almost twenty years, but one particularly rainy autumn he decided to call him and make up with him. He also speaks with great respect of his long-time friend Vittorio Capovilla, with whom he has been collaborating for years in the production of top-quality distillates.
In Croatia, he particularly appreciates Ivan Enjingi, but also Fran Miloš, whose Stagnum he describes as one of the best Croatian wines he has ever tasted. When it comes to world wine icons, his only regret is that he never had the opportunity to open a bottle of wine by Henri Jayer, whom he considers one of the greatest legends of global winemaking. After a tour of the vineyard and a conversation about wine and winemakers, Joško took us to his home. In the kitchen, his wife Maria and nephew Gregor served us cold kombucha, which Joško produces himself. The kitchen is made entirely of stainless steel. It is a product of the Italian company Abimis, known for making professional custom-made kitchens.
Amphorae are the trademark
After refreshments, we went down to the cellar, which covers more than a thousand square meters and still is not completed. Gravner explains that from the very beginning it was extremely important to him that the cellar be functional, without unnecessary decorations and other details that lose their meaning over time. He waited for a permit to build it for as long as twenty years. Today, the cellar houses between 44 and 45 Georgian amphorae, which have become the trademark of his production. An important role in this story is played by Antonio Ivančić, director and owner of the company Imaht from Jastrebarsko in Croatia, Antonio is Gravner's long-time friend and collaborator who organizes the purchase of the amphorae.
Everything is slower and more natural in the amphora, he says, and emphasizes that they have never had problems with stopped fermentation in them. He is also especially proud of the new Pfaudler tanks that he is introducing into production. The first models were made for the pharmaceutical industry, and each one costs around 40,000 euros. Gravner emphasizes that he has built and developed almost everything in his life with his own funds and very rarely asks for help. However, it was precisely for these tanks that they had to apply for a state subsidy, which, he says, has not been paid even after two and a half years. The tanks are coated with glass powder inside and fired at more than 900 degrees. Part of the production will take place in them, and part will continue to mature in large wooden barrels. He also speaks with great respect of his long-time friend Vittorio Capovilli, with whom he has collaborated for years in the production of top-quality distillates.
He had to buy his own wine
We chose four wines to pair with lunch: Ribolla 2000, 2005 and 2016 and Rosso Rujno 2007. Recalling the 2000 vintage, Gravner recounts an almost unbelievable story from the Croatian border. The shipment of wine was held up for almost three months because at the time, because Croatia did not know how to classify wine produced by long maceration of white grapes. Analyses showed a product that did not comply with the regulations, so the wine was declared impure and undrinkable, i.e. a product that could not be released on the market. Joško had to pay customs duties and transport back to Italy again. At the end, I bought my own wine, he said with a laugh.
The excellent lunch prepared by his wife Maria was inspired by vegetables, and the wines we tasted went well with each course. She served a casserole of eggs, zucchini and cottage cheese to start. This was followed by a cucumber salad with sauce, then a lightly roasted tomato with anchovies and wild garlic pesto, and spaghetti from the Mancini manufacturer, which they are particularly proud of, served with an excellent tomato and basil sauce. Next were baked cheese with sesame and beetroot, while the lunch was concluded with Torrone Blue Noto from his friend who owned the pastry shop Caffè Sicilia, served with an espresso.
There are no natural wines, just simple ones
During lunch, the conversation continued about wine and everything that surrounds it. The topic also included sommeliers in restaurants, whom Gravner believes sometimes serve guests macerated wine with mana, and mistakenly attribute the unpleasant smells and shortcomings to the maceration itself. He emphasized that his wines should not be served too cold because this would lose a large part of their aromatics. He recommends wide glasses that allow the wine to fully open up. He particularly emphasizes that his wines are not orange, but amber. He believes that the name orange wine does not describe what they truly are and that it is more correct to speak of amber. Speaking about minimal interventions in the cellar, he often repeats a thought that breaks down common misconceptions: wines are not natural, but simple. There is human intervention and they can no longer be natural.
He believes that every winemaker should clearly state what was added to the wine during production. However, he warns that such a system would be difficult to implement because many would not honestly disclose what they were doing. He recalls a period when some winemakers went into what he calls total anarchy and tried to produce wine without the addition of sulfur. Since this approach did not produce the desired results, they eventually returned to the previous method of production. At the same time, he notes that others have suddenly switched from completely commercial production to macerated wines, following trends more than their own beliefs. This is precisely why he believes that it is more important to be consistent with one's own philosophy than to follow what is popular at a certain moment. He comments on the latter with a laugh with the picturesque Italian saying vecchia puttana che a settant anni si fa vergine, which means an old prostitute who pretends to be a virgin at 70.
Rosé is neither fish nor meat
Although he cultivates his vineyards according to biodynamic principles, Joško Gravner does not have a Demeter certificate. He says he doesn't need it because he believes in what he does and lives biodynamics every day. He also adds that he has tasted many wines with that label that, in his opinion, were not drinkable. When asked if he drinks sparkling wine, he recalls a bottle of Selosse from 1994 that was opened for his birthday and describes it as an extraordinary wine. However, he immediately adds that he would never produce sparkling wine. Where cypresses and olives grow, there is no place for sparkling wine, he says, convinced that each climate should give what it is best at. He says that rosé has no real identity for him: it is neither fish nor meat.
He singles out 2005 as the best vintage of Rebula, and considers those in which noble botrytis developed to be particularly successful. He also designed the Coppa, his own stemless wine glass. He got the idea during a trip to Georgia, where he was served wine in a similar vessel. Each Coppa is handmade by Italian glass master Massimo Lunardon, and the goal was not to make a technically perfect glass, but one that brings people closer to wine. His wine philosophy is as simple as it is profound: If something doesn't start well, it won't become excellent later! He believes that wines should be given time, tasted, waited, and returned to the next day, because the best ones are constantly developing. He is convinced that his wines have exceptional aging potential, and he explains their distinctive amber color with simple words: Wine is alive.
Wine culture is knowing that you don't know
If you want to make good wine, you have to know how to eat and drink well, Joško says with conviction that the feeling for wine is developed just as much at the table as in the vineyard: Wine should be approached as a friend. The best thing about it is not just the taste, but the relationship you develop over time. He believes that many people still judge wine with their eyes and ears, according to the color, labels and what they have read and heard from others, instead of tasting it themselves and forming their own opinion. True wine culture, he concludes, means learning throughout life and being aware that there is always something you have not yet discovered. When asked about the future of winemaking, he answers that the industry is facing difficult times. In the next five years, he expects a crisis, a surplus of wine on the market, and the closure of numerous wineries. However, he believes that a new beginning will come right after that.
We are scratching the bottom, now everything needs to be turned around and started over, Gravner recalls the words of Italian journalist Paolo Rumiz. He also believes that all great wines should be bottled in magnum bottles, in which they mature better and more slowly. Gravner's wines are now sold in around 60 countries around the world. About half of the production remains in Italy, and the most important export markets are the USA and Japan. He admits that, like most winemakers, he faces a shortage of labor. However, he points out that they are lucky to have been working with Filipino workers for years, whom he highly values for their responsibility, knowledge and dedication. During the conversation, he returned to his father several times. He recalled how he constantly told him that a little is good. He admits that as a young man he did not understand the weight of those words, but today they are precisely what summarizes his philosophy of life and wine. Towards the end of the conversation, we touched on motorcycles, another of his great passions.
I am just a peasant who makes wine!
My Triumph motorcycle knows himslef where we are going he says, adding that he often spends the evening in the vineyards: I also recall with particular pleasure the numerous trips along the Croatian coast. We would go swimming early in the morning, spend the whole day on the motorbike, come back in the evening and set off on a new ride the next morning. That's Joško Gravner, who always goes his own way, not agreeing to compromises in either life or wine. He left me with the impression of a man with clear views, consistent in his beliefs and unwilling to compromise. Deep respect for tradition, the land and the people around him is felt in every word he says, and above all in the way he creates his wines. While many consider him one of the most influential winemakers of today, he would describe himself more simply: I'm just a peasant who makes wine!
